NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/3795

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 12.2 KB

Path: coranto.ucs.mun.ca!gnoel
From: [e-mail] (George Noel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: 1 Feb 1996 10:09:04 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4eq3g1$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: plato.ucs.mun.ca

In article <[e-mail]>,
Eric Szulczewski <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>In a message dated 01-22-96 22-20 Gary Alan Peake writes:
>
>GP> You are, of course, talking about 'in the North American market'? Many
>GP> times it has been said by Amiga Technologies that North America is NOT
>GP> what they are after TODAY.
>
>And that's a mistake if they want to be taken seriously in the world
>market.

They are new to handling the Amiga, overseas (their homeground) is their
testing ground to work out all the problems before attempting to move
into North America full force.  This also gives them a chance to gain
capital moreso then they would get in North America right now.

>GP> Today they are after the European community,
>GP> R&D, and PPC. Many times they have insinuated and outright said that when
>GP> they get the necessary production, R&D, PPC and a strategic NA partner ...
>GP> we will SEE an Amiga push here. To them, I'm sure it's simple math.
>
>So why are they releasing the 4000T and Net package here in NA?  Why
>not just wait until the PPC?

Because they know most of the demand for the A4000t is in North America
with all the video production companies whom can afford to pay the price
they are looking to get for it.  Why are they releasing the Net package
here? Because they realize it is the most trendy thing in North America
and THEY have the computer that everyone is wishing to be out there for
Net/Web access!  If they don't enter the market now, they could lose it
to Oracle etc.  Why wait for the PPC? Because it is as Dr. P. K said
directly to me in e-mail.. "too long to wait".

>What I really meant is that they handed out the coding of the OS to a
>company that no one ever heard of except in general terms when that
>name was announced here.  Maybe they will put something in the code;
>maybe they won't.  But you know better than to bring up Kittel as a
>reference around me.

Who the hell even heard of Escom in North America prior to thier bid for
Commodore?  That point is moot.  Sometimes a new change is needed and so
far it is working ok, this company responsible for the OS coding might
bring us some nice surprises in the future.

>GP> the North American 'strategic partner' will assume
>GP> responsibility for marketing and distribution of Amiga products in North
>GP> America.
>
>In other words, Escom and AT are washing their hands of the entire
>thing in NA.

Escom/Amiga Technologies have no shops in North America and for them to
be able to handle all the orders/distribution from both sides of the ocean
is a bit much for them I think.  Also as far as I know Escom nor Amiga
Technologies are an International company, should they decide to set up
bases here in North America, they have to play by totally different
rules!  Right now I do not think they want to take that chance!

>And with the emphasis on the software in the package, their competition
>doesn't become Oracle; it becomes Netscape Navigator.  That means that
>the software has to look as good and behave as nicely as Navigator (no
>matter what the underlying OS is) to attract the customers.

To attract the customers, the price needs to be right offering a suitable
service that they can use NOW with decent quality.  If they want Netscape
they can save up a bit more for a new machine thus waiting longer to use that
service or they can spend less and start using it NOW.  The software for the
Amiga has a CHANCE to become more Netscape-like but the prices of the machines
Netscape currently runs on doesn't stand a chance to dropping to a more
suitable consumer price anytime soon!

>
>GP> 'What an awful name'? Please .... let's hear YOUR name for the package?
>
>At least my name won't be a complete cliche and overused piece of
>jargon.  How about "Amiga WorldLink" or "Amiga Presence"?  I think that
>both would have more appeal than The S-Word.

Escom have done studies in Europe etc. about what name people associate
things with the best.  They did this with their PCs and found out Commodore
was the second most known to IBM (or whathaveyou) thus one of their reasons
for the buying of Commodore to get the name and the logo to help sales.
They then did another study and found out "Golf" is widely recognized in
Europe thus in their press releases stated this is why they decided to name
some of their computers Commodore Golf.  In North America, their is a German
car imported called the Volkswagon Golf also.. the sport Golf is widely
popular in North America, especially the US.  You should already know
names sell. Right now the word constantly being associated with the net is
surfing yet no piece of software or computer is named after it.. until now.


>GP> Oh? How many of the twelve people here do NOT think Amiga Technologies has
>GP> a plan? How many of the twelve DO think Amiga Technologies has a plan?
>GP> (HINT: See Amiga Technologies speeches and press releases for plans).
>
>1) There are more than twelve people here.

I have to agree for sure with this.

>GP> >But can AT cut through the M$ brainwash factory that "more power =
>GP> >better"?  Or will the public see the 1200 package (I refuse to call it
>GP> >"Surfer") as a toy?
>
>GP> Refuse to use it's name, that's your perogative, but it's STILL the name.
>
>No, it's an example of how much imagination AT "marketing" has:  none.

See my above paragraph.  For some reason a computer that can access the net
and web nowadays cannot be looked at as a toy as it is the in thing and is
hip to do, if people can do it cheaper then more power to them.  The only
problem facing them is the underpowered category and if possible, they
should release an A1200+ Surfer kit in the future if the set-top box doesn't
take over that market for them.

>GP> How about if we call you Ralph?

I'd prefer Bob. :)

>GP> > >1) By buying the 1200s and 4000Ts out there, we are contributing to the
>GP> > >coffers of AT's R&D efforts.  But do we want outdated machines?
>GP> > >Especially with the PPC announcement.  Amiga owners are patient by
>GP> > >nature when it comes to the system.  How many people won't wait a year?

All of those people who now cannot afford to buy A4000ts as the Power Amiga
will not be set at a price where the average joe can buy should it be PPCP
compatible.

>GP> >GP> See, made my point. We WILL wait a year. They are/should be chasing
>GP> new, >GP> entry level buyers who will expand into that new PPC later on.

I also agree, the lowend market now and in the near future will be a great
start to migrate to the PPC Amiga 1 or 2 years down the road (assuming not
everyone will be able to afford to run out and get one right away).

>GP> >I didn't make a point.  I asked a question about current Amiga owners,
>GP> >since they're the only ones who seem to know about the 1200s/4000Ts.
>
>GP> No 'new' buyers have bought a 1200 or 4000? That's strange!
>
>No, they haven't.  And it's not strange when we, as Amiga owners, are
>the only ones who know about them.  Look at the posts regarding the

How can YOU tell if no new buyers have bought one?

>GP> And if there are 'some' new buyers, where did they hear about the
>GP> Amiga?
>
>Word of mouth from Amiga owners, since they haven't put in any

Exactly and sometimes this is good and right now AT has to concentrate on
otherthings moreso then advertising.  Granted it IS needed when the Surfer
package hits the shelves and for the Power Amiga, if they or any possible
partners they could have do not advertise from the Surfer on up, THEN you
can start labelling them as Commodore all over again.

>Who's the one saying that AT is concentrating on the short-term only,
>and that's the correct way to behave?  You're a hypocrite, Peake.

Escom/AT has the long term in mind or they wouldn't be building up a
foundation to enter the Nort America market, which they can reap the
benefits from more with the Power Amiga.

>GP> Again, of the twelve people here, how many are asking these questions?
>
>Well, let's see, there's me, Byron Montgomery, Paul Chan...that's three
>out of the 12 right there, which is a dissatisfaction and skepticism
>rate of 25%.  Not good customer "satisfaction", huh?

Let's put it this way, they don't have to do ANYTHING with the Amiga if
they didn't want to.. then how much will the dissatisfaction rate go up?
Be lucky they are doing anything at all and NO company can work miracles
overnight.  I like seeing you voicing your concerns but I think you and
the others are taking it too far, if you have that PC blood in you, you
should choose that path and leave the Amiga to Amigans.

>Let's see, they drained, by YOUR OWN ESTIMATE, US$85 million over
>calendar year 1995.  Did AT pull in US$85 million in sales in calendar
>1995?  Debits are greater than credits; to me, that means a loss.  Yes,

Sometimes you have to lose money in order to make it.  If AT is still
losing money when the Power Amiga is introduced and a mass-marketing
campaign is in place, then you can start to worry.  Not to put words in
Dr. P. K's mouth but under frsutration here in one post he said under the
worst conditions we are guranteed one new generation of the Amiga.
In my opinion, after that, the sales and support for the Power Amiga will
determine if the lowend and mid-ranged PPC Amigas will be built (more then
likely they will as they would sell more) and then if things didn't look
good, no more Amiga advances and they could stick to being PPCP box movers.

>And I'm the walking ugly stick for AT.  Just playing devil's advocate,
>Gary m'dear.  It's my job to ask the tough questions and make the
>points others don't want to see, like yourself.  See, I've got you in a

Who says he or anyone else doesn't want to hear the stuff?  I think anyways
going about it the way you are is hurting moreso then helping.

>Well, my 2000/25 is going along nicely on 3.1.  My next two upgrades
>will be a Picasso II (already have the flicker fixer) and either an 060
>or a PPC card (depending on whether they're going to make one for the
>2000 or not).  After that, the PPC Amiga.  Despite my reservations

I still cannot see how you have to worry yourself over the A1200 or A1200+
with the machine you currently have and the goals you have for the future
other then you don't like the supposed image the public will associate
the AMIGA with based on these lowend computers.. am I right?  Other then
that you are talking to a totally different part of the population and AT
needs to be well rounded in order to survive.

>about AT, I'm staying loyal.  I feel that this computer transcends the
>owners of the OS.  Remember, Gary, AT does not equal Amiga.

No, but there are still a lot of people inside AT that have had a lot to
do with the Amiga for years and AT can make or break the Amiga.  If you
have a problem with AT, do not take it out on the computers.

>As I said, they have their best shots with the PPC.  However, they
>should still make mass marketing deals and ads for the 4000T in NA to
>(re)familiarize the market with the name "Amiga".

The CURRENT A4000t? No way.  The updated one with '060 and possible new
graphics chips? Yes.

The current A1200? No.  The A1200 Surfer? Yes.  The A1200+? Yes.

They don't even have to advertise product, they could advertise the
name such as Digitial are doing to get things looking better for the
Amiga.

>they think that bringing in the PPC cold will do it for NA.  A
>preemptive marketing campaign for the PPC once the release date is
>definite is mandatory.

Give them a chance!

>I feel happy for you that you still believe in the innate goodness of
>mankind.  I don't.

A meat inspector's life is a cold one! :)

>The Deathbed Vigil, though, dealt with the people at C= in the lower
>and middle management levels and tech people, who really did bleed
>straight into the Agnuses and Denises.  And none of the people in it
>are involved with AT's efforts.

How do you know for sure?

>Eric Szulczewski
>[e-mail]
>(soon to change)
>The Devil's Advocate

I like this MUCh better! :)

-=*George*=-